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Max More's avatar

“The advantage of chemical fixation is that it enables pristine quality of preservation, and can eliminate two types of damage that have plagued cryobiology ever since the 1950s.” But weeks of immersion fixation implies damage. It cannot be pristine. This is something that needs to be carefully addressed in a sound comparison of chemical and cryopreservation.

The image comes from a paper that says: “Additionally, we demonstrate that synaptic structures can be successfully traced across serial EM sections in some postmortem samples,” Note that it says “some,” not all. More details would be helpful. I would be encouraged if the best preservation is in areas of the brain that hold memories and other crucial personal identity relevant information. I don’t care so much about the hindbrain or spinal cord.

“If there have been any ethical discussions in statements from Alcor Foundation, Cryonics Institute, or Tomorrow Bio, I do not recall seeing them recently.” On this blog, Brian Wowk has written about ethical issues. Earlier, he also wrote about the ethics of non-ideal cases and that is just as relevant today. I think these ethical issues used to be addressed in Alcor’s FAQ but I do not see it there now.

“SBP has done something that no cryonics organization has ever achieved or even attempted.” You make a good point here and I strongly favor more research leading to published evidence of ultrastructural preservation. But you overstate your case. Greg Fahyy has STILL not published the results of his thorough study of Stephen Coles brain but he has conveyed some of the important results in two talks. Tomorrow Biostasis is planning to take brain samples and run tests. They have not done this yet because they first want to secure patient permission.

“I don’t see anything to prevent this, as I don’t know of any organization that restricts a member from having additional arrangements with another organization.” Alcor may have this restriction. I would have to check the recently revised and very long membership agreement but I certainly got the sense that Alcor does not want to have members with arrangements with other organizations. (I will check on the agreement as I work on one of my next blog essays.)

“Since chemical fixation allows perfusate to remain in a liquid state, Jordan Sparks has suggested that molecular-scale nanotechnology may not actually be necessary for revival.” The quotation that follows does not support this. It does not address how cross-links will be broken without nanotech. The “Stentrode” approach does not obviously do away with the need for nanotech.

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Jordan Sparks's avatar

Thanks for the article, Charles. I would first like to address the wording where I claim the cryonics is not ethical. That claim was made on a forum where I was trying to stimulate a rebuttal of some sort. Nobody responded. The wording is toned down although still present on the page on our website where I discuss this in quite a bit of detail: https://www.sparksbrain.org/cryonicsVsAldehyde.html

I would then like to reply to Max's complaint about the cross links. All brains preserved so far with cryopreservation have undergone severe molecular damage as well and will also need the exact same level of repair as a chemically fixed brain. Any scientist will tell you point blank that the quality with fixation is better than the quality with cryopreservation. I'm not sure why Max brings up immersion fixation because we perfuse if possible. If perfusion is not possible, and if you then compare the quality of immersion fixation with cryopreservation, then there is an even bigger advantage in quality when using fixation. Fixation always wins, even more so in bad cases. So if the quality is better and they both will need the same kind of repair, then which one would you rationally choose?

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